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Welcome to another episode.

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This is episode 324, I cannot believe it.

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Today, I’m excited to bring you a conversation with Abe Partridge.

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He’s a repeat offender on the podcast, has been on a few times.

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And how many times?

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I’m going to have to look that up, but I’ll put links in the show notes so you can check out his prior appearances if you are interested.

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I think they’re great.

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So, very quickly before we get into that, my little YouTube experiment if you’ve been following the past few episodes is on pause for now or changed for now.

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I’m not going to include the full interview video on YouTube moving forward for now, but I will do the intro which if you’re watching, you see me now.

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In case you want to watch, you can see what I look like or see what I look like today.

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But we’ll see.

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Stay tuned while I try to develop some semblance of a video studio.

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And then secondly, I want to tell you about an artist that I discovered via the Apple News Feed and more specifically the Wall Street Journal.

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For those of you who subscribe to neither, don’t worry, you can look him up.

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I made sure of that.

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But there’s an artist formerly known as Boy With Uke as in Yooka Laylee, Boy With Uke, all one word, who goes by the name of Charlie Yang.

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And that’s Charlie with an EY.

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His story is really interesting about the possibilities in the changing music industry.

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In a nutshell, he circumvented the traditional gates, gatekeepers of the industry and has started an interesting career for himself.

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He’s in it for at least a few years now, so he’s not brand brand new, but he’s a young artist in the grand scheme of things.

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So I encourage you to check him out, mostly to read about his story and how he got where he is.

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I think the types of things that I share on the podcast and in the Liner Notes newsletter speak to what he’s doing in a way.

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So yeah, check it out.

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Abe Partridge, he is a remarkable independent artist who’s been touring, wow, let me start that again.

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Abe Partridge, my guest today, is a remarkable independent artist who’s been touring since 2017 and has recently been keeping quite busy.

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When we spoke, he had just returned from a month-long journey that included recording a new album produced by Steve Shelley of Sonic Youth at Chase Park Transduction in Athens, Georgia.

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Both of those, the group, the guy, the studio, the town, kind of iconic.

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But in this episode, we dive into music career transition as Abe shares his experiences touring with Matthew Sweet, love that guy, signing with a booking agent and navigating the complexities of the music business.

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He also shares his fascinating work Documented the Undocumented Folk Music of Serpent Handling Churches in Appalachia.

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You heard me right.

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And he does that through his Alabama Astronaut podcast.

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I finally checked it out.

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I was really impressed.

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Production value is great.

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The episode storyline I checked out was quite compelling.

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So if that sounds like something you might be interested in, I encourage you to find out wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

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Abe offers valuable insights on tour planning, the importance of building relationships in the industry, and how he’s created a sustainable career through live performances rather than relying on streaming revenue.

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Whether you’re just starting out or looking to level up your music career, Abe’s practical wisdom and authentic approach offer something practical for everyone.

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So I think you’re going to like this conversation.

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I hope you like it as much as I enjoyed recording it.

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Here is me speaking with Abe Partridge.

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Looking good, man.

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I’ve been outside working, buddy.

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You look like an IT guy with that desk.

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We didn’t clean it up enough for you.

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This is me and my wife’s business office.

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I like it.

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Looks nice.

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I’ve been more than a bit busy, buddy.

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Don’t you even worry about it.

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I had some notes here to see if you’re interested in talking about them later, because I’ve written some newsletters.

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But anyway, there’s a little subheading here, learning to say no, and I was like, I wonder if Abe should have said no.

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No, man, I’ve been talking to you for a long time.

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And I mean, I have been saying no a little bit lately, but not to you, buddy.

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I just when you when we set up the last things, I had been called into duty for the Air Force.

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No kidding.

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Yeah.

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And so I was kind of I was I was like super busy.

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I had to go in for two weeks.

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And then and then today, I thought we were doing central time.

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But that’s because I didn’t pay attention.

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No worries.

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You know, and where I’m at now, we don’t even move the clocks in.

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I’m in Queretaro, Mexico, which I don’t think I was last time we spoke.

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But yeah, the time changed.

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It’s not the first time that’s gotten somebody, including me.

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Yeah, it’s all good, brother.

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Yeah.

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So did you just get off a short or long string of shows?

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Well, I was I was I was I was going for about a month.

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I was 11 days in the studio and then the rest of it on the road.

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Cool.

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Well, what’s what’s going on in the studio?

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Oh, I just made a new record.

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Again?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Nice.

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So I just recorded a new record.

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Yeah.

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With Chase Park Transduction in Athens, Georgia, with my friend Steve Shelley from Sonic Youth producing it.

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Nice.

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You know all the celebs, man.

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Oh, I know a couple, but not, and then those couple tell you to take it everybody else, you know.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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When’s it coming out?

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I have no idea.

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Well, it seems like you just did one not that long ago, but maybe it was longer ago than I think.

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But yeah, it’s 2023.

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Yeah.

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I haven’t written down The Satan, Your Liars, Your Liars.

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Is that right?

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Yeah.

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The Satan, Your Liars.

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Yeah.

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That was this kind of a side project that I put out with my buddy David Childers.

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Not what you put out in 2023.

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Yeah.

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My last Abe Partridge record came out in 2023.

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The Satan, Your Liars was just like a little side project that me and David Childers put out.

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Okay.

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Well, I’d written down also that you, that Lackluster did, you put out a Lackluster album in 2023, which was a delayed thing.

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But did you do another one in 2023?

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Or do I have it all off?

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Yeah, I did.

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I did a Psych Peas record.

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Okay.

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Psych Peas is my punk band with some of my buddies down here in Mobile.

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And then I did out my last Abe Partridge record called Love in the Dark.

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I didn’t put out nothing in 2024.

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And at the first of the year, I put out The Satan Year of Liars, Build This House Together is what it’s called.

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And then probably before the end of the year, I’ll have my new Abe Partridge record too.

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Okay.

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Man, I’m all behind and mixed up here.

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I had the name of the punk band wrong.

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Is Lackluster the name of the album that you did with Psych Peas?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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How long had it been since you did one of those?

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That was our debut record.

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That was our only record, really.

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But you had the band, though, before, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, we did.

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We’ve had the band going for us since about 2018 or so.

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Okay.

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I felt I feel like we’d talked about it before.

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And I guess when I saw that I just had my head that you guys had recorded before.

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But that’s cool.

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I did hear a little bit of that.

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And now I have to go look for Love in the Dark.

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I may have heard some of it and just didn’t realize that’s what I was listening to.

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But I’ll have to check it out.

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Yeah.

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How were your shows at the Spirit Room?

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That looks like kind of a cool place to play.

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Oh, yeah.

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I love that place.

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Yeah, it’s great.

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I played their very first show that they ever had two years prior.

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No kidding.

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That was their two year anniversary.

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Yeah.

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Very nice.

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Something I thought about you months ago, because I am a fan of some early work by Matthew Sweet, and I saw that he had a pretty big health incident recently.

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But before that, I saw that you were doing some shows with him.

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Yeah, I did like 50 shows with Matthew Sweet last year.

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No kidding.

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Was he playing with you?

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Was he playing in a band or kind of by himself, or with a small ensemble, or what?

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Well, the first tour we did, it was his whole band.

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And then the last little tour we were on when he had a stroke, he was doing like an acoustic trio thing.

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Did that happen to him when you guys were on tour?

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Yeah.

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That’s sad, man.

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I hope he’s OK.

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I don’t know if you have.

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I haven’t maybe haven’t looked all the places, but I couldn’t really tell how his recovery was going.

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Do you know anything?

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Yeah, he’s making a recovery.

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It’s a long process.

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He has to go through a lot of rehabilitations and things.

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But I think the look is good if he can continue to do the hard work.

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Rehabilitation.

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Yeah.

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Well, cool.

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If it happens that you talk to him again, please express my well wishes to him.

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I’ve been listening to some of that early stuff since it first came out.

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So I was like, you’re touring with Matthew Sweet.

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How cool is that?

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Yeah.

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Matthew is a great guy too.

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And we really, really cool hang, you know.

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That’s good to hear.

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I’m actually have been playing one of his songs, Sick of Myself, in recent months.

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And I remember when I first started singing it, for some reason it was making me very, very emotional.

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Yeah, it was kind of strange, you know.

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I mean, it’s just got kind of all his tunes have this kind of happy tempo to them.

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Well, a lot of them did anyway.

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But so yeah, I’d been thinking about him before all that happened.

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And then I remember him posting a thing on Instagram that said something like, and just like that, I’m 60.

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And then the poor guy had the stroke, I guess.

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So anyway, yeah, thanks for that.

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I was really curious and I’m glad to hear that the nice, nice things that you had to say about him already, and that you got to do so many shows with him.

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I had no idea.

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That’s really cool.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, man, we had a great time.

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That was what I did with the bulk of my year last year, really.

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Wow.

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The bulk of my shows were playing with him.

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Did you know him before the tour?

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We share the same management.

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Okay.

00:12:39.160 –> 00:12:44.900
So I had never met him before we went on tour because he lives out in Omaha.

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But in Nebraska?

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Yeah.

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But he’s had the same manager since the 80s.

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Okay.

00:12:59.780 –> 00:13:07.640
Then his name is Russell Carter, and Russell Carter started managing me a few years ago.

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That’s cool.

00:13:09.000 –> 00:13:10.360
Yeah.

00:13:10.360 –> 00:13:12.340
I was shifting gears.

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I was talking to Tony Hara somewhat recently.

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You know him.

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Yeah.

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It was nice.

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I did one of these catch-up calls with him too, because he had a very memorable conversation with him.

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The one time I had spoken with him.

00:13:29.120 –> 00:13:45.460
And yeah, your name came up and he was saying some nice things about you, but he did a great imitation of you when he was telling a story about, he was contemplating an audio version of one of his books.

00:13:45.460 –> 00:13:51.480
And then he broke into your voice to say what you told him that stuck with him that he needed to narrate it himself.

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I laughed.

00:13:53.260 –> 00:14:01.540
So if you, I may have to find the timestamp in the episode and send it to you, so you can just listen to it and get a kick out of it.

00:14:01.540 –> 00:14:02.700
I was like, that’s pretty good.

00:14:04.940 –> 00:14:07.340
Yeah, I’d like to hear that.

00:14:07.340 –> 00:14:11.200
Yeah, he really thinks, thinks fondly of you for sure.

00:14:11.200 –> 00:14:19.300
And you know, something you, I don’t know if you’re still working on it, but you looked like a big project for you.

00:14:21.560 –> 00:14:25.660
The podcast, was it called Alabama Astronaut?

00:14:25.660 –> 00:14:27.280
Yeah, Alabama Astronaut.

00:14:27.280 –> 00:14:30.020
Yeah, it came out in 2022.

00:14:31.080 –> 00:14:33.340
I think it’s nine episodes long.

00:14:33.340 –> 00:14:34.880
Only nine, wow.

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Yeah, we put it out and then we put out another one called Marked for Life, which is a biographical sketch of one of the members of the Serpent Handling Community.

00:14:50.900 –> 00:15:02.180
And any day now, we should have our new episode of our new podcast called Alabama Astronaut, the Glenn Somerford case.

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It should be coming out any day now.

00:15:05.920 –> 00:15:07.140
That’s cool.

00:15:07.140 –> 00:15:20.580
And I was, am I correct that the Alabama Astronaut podcast also deals with some of the undocumented facets of the serpent handling churches in the Appalachia?

00:15:20.640 –> 00:15:21.300
Yeah.

00:15:21.300 –> 00:15:26.040
Yeah, it was, it started as my attempt to document their music.

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They play, they play a previously undocumented form of American folk music that I have been documenting for, well, I mean, I’m still, I’m still actively doing it.

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I’ve been doing it for the last four and a half years.

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Did you have some personal experience with those churches or was it just something you were extremely fascinated with because of proximity or something else?

00:15:59.280 –> 00:16:05.280
Well, I had met one of them whenever I was a preacher myself back in the mid-2000s.

00:16:06.580 –> 00:16:09.660
So, I’ve been aware of them for quite some time.

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But then when the pandemic came, I had time and I had long wanted to go to see what it was like.

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Then whenever I went, I heard songs that I had never heard before and I couldn’t find anywhere.

00:16:27.200 –> 00:16:30.820
So yeah, it set me on the journey.

00:16:30.820 –> 00:16:35.440
What was your impression overall, both of the music and everything else about it?

00:16:36.480 –> 00:16:41.520
Oh, it’s an amazing form of rock and roll.

00:16:41.620 –> 00:16:42.800
You’re kidding.

00:16:42.800 –> 00:16:43.940
Yeah.

00:16:43.940 –> 00:16:47.220
It’s really, really passionate rock and roll music.

00:16:47.220 –> 00:16:52.160
I’ve never let anybody hear it who didn’t like it.

00:16:52.400 –> 00:16:54.480
It’s great music.

00:16:55.680 –> 00:17:10.300
It’s just that most of the times whenever somebody has documented this group, they focus on what’s sensational in pictures and videos of people holding serpents and the music has been in the background.

00:17:12.280 –> 00:17:18.700
My work has not really revolved around the handling of serpents.

00:17:18.700 –> 00:17:23.360
I’ve just been really concerned with trying to document their songs.

00:17:23.360 –> 00:17:24.540
That’s cool.

00:17:24.540 –> 00:17:26.320
I have a friend here in Queretaro.

00:17:27.420 –> 00:17:34.800
He is from somewhere in Virginia and he’s kind of a hillbilly.

00:17:35.380 –> 00:17:38.800
He’s from the Appalachia area.

00:17:38.800 –> 00:17:45.880
He is older than me, probably by about 10 years, and he plays early, early American music.

00:17:46.360 –> 00:17:49.800
The first time I met him, he called it old time.

00:17:49.800 –> 00:17:52.380
Listen to me, I’m swinging into my own accent.

00:17:52.380 –> 00:17:53.960
Old time music, old time.

00:17:54.540 –> 00:18:01.460
Anyway, he’s a big history buff and a super interesting guy, super nice.

00:18:01.460 –> 00:18:03.860
We hang out a lot and I enjoy a lot of people.

00:18:03.860 –> 00:18:10.540
Actually, he got invited to do a talk about early American folk music at one of the local universities here.

00:18:10.540 –> 00:18:13.420
He’s doing tomorrow, I think.

00:18:13.420 –> 00:18:14.880
So that’s kind of cool.

00:18:16.780 –> 00:18:23.220
I know he’ll be pretty fascinating with a lot of this stuff, so I’ll have to send it to him and I’ll send you a link to his Facebook or something.

00:18:23.560 –> 00:18:25.500
You might get a kick out of him as well.

00:18:25.500 –> 00:18:26.880
Yeah, that’d be awesome.

00:18:27.060 –> 00:18:37.000
Yeah, he’s spent a little time educating me about the music that he plays and about the Appalachia and all these things.

00:18:37.000 –> 00:18:38.860
It’s kind of interesting.

00:18:38.860 –> 00:18:43.980
Yeah, I’m sure that’s the kind of guy that likes the podcast.

00:18:45.840 –> 00:18:47.300
I will definitely send it to him.

00:18:47.300 –> 00:18:48.400
I’m sure you will.

00:18:48.400 –> 00:18:49.560
Yeah.

00:18:49.560 –> 00:19:04.500
I was thinking just today, there’s a lot of interesting things that you told me, maybe in our first two conversations, but I remember you told me about your journey through the church and then the military and all that.

00:19:04.500 –> 00:19:11.960
I was just curious how today, looking back, how you feel about your theological past, or is it even something that you look at as your past?

00:19:13.460 –> 00:19:15.840
Well, yeah, I mean, it is my past.

00:19:17.120 –> 00:19:44.000
I don’t really dwell in those kind of thoughts anymore, but yeah, I look at it as a foundation from which I create art, and I’m thankful for both of my experiences in the church and in the military because it informed, well, I mean, it was the soil out of which I grew, you know?

00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:45.340
Yeah.

00:19:45.340 –> 00:19:49.260
It took a long time, but I’m at peace with it now.

00:19:49.260 –> 00:19:50.200
Good.

00:19:50.200 –> 00:20:00.020
I actually watched part of one of your performance videos this morning, and you opened up two things that you just mentioned.

00:20:00.080 –> 00:20:08.800
You opened up with your early journey through the churches and marriage and the military, and then leaving and working on that.

00:20:08.800 –> 00:20:10.180
I was like, that’s pretty cool.

00:20:10.180 –> 00:20:10.780
That’s pretty cool.

00:20:10.780 –> 00:20:12.120
Yeah.

00:20:12.120 –> 00:20:13.080
Well, yeah.

00:20:13.080 –> 00:20:20.520
I mean, I tell it at almost every show, especially when there’s new people there.

00:20:21.080 –> 00:20:30.960
It lets people know where you come from and gives context for what it is you’re saying.

00:20:30.960 –> 00:20:32.180
I like the way you did it too.

00:20:32.180 –> 00:20:36.600
It was almost like abrupt.

00:20:36.600 –> 00:20:38.180
And then you launched into the song.

00:20:38.180 –> 00:20:39.040
It was pretty cool.

00:20:39.100 –> 00:20:41.160
It was very enjoyable.

00:20:41.160 –> 00:20:42.040
Yeah.

00:20:42.040 –> 00:20:48.860
I’ll have to send that to my friend Dean too, so he can get a feel for that as well.

00:20:48.860 –> 00:20:53.920
So also wanted to ask if you had thoughts on some things I’ve been thinking about.

00:20:53.920 –> 00:20:56.720
You may or may not, so take a pass on any of them that you want.

00:20:56.880 –> 00:21:04.340
But I think you probably have had to think about probably all of these things at some point.

00:21:04.340 –> 00:21:07.300
Whether that means you have anything to say about them today.

00:21:07.300 –> 00:21:16.900
So you can let me know what you think, but I thought it would be good fodder for listeners and some of the things that I’ve written about recently in my newsletter.

00:21:16.900 –> 00:21:28.760
But so maybe it’s been a few months already, but I wrote a multi-part piece on booking and tour management with some kind of subtopics that I noted.

00:21:28.760 –> 00:21:31.080
If any of them jump at you, it’s like, yeah, you know what?

00:21:31.080 –> 00:21:31.900
I have some thoughts about that.

00:21:31.900 –> 00:21:32.660
I’d love to hear them.

00:21:32.660 –> 00:21:35.420
But if not, just again, take a pass and I’ll give you the next one.

00:21:35.420 –> 00:21:50.460
But along those lines, I talked about strategic tour planning, tour management, promotional timelines, thinking about that ahead of time, and online ticket sales among other things.

00:21:50.740 –> 00:21:52.360
My experience, by the way, is pretty limited.

00:21:52.360 –> 00:21:56.400
I’ve done a couple of little mini tours, so I had to do a lot of research and talk to some people.

00:21:56.400 –> 00:21:57.900
You just came off of tour.

00:21:57.900 –> 00:22:04.400
Do you have insights to share, new thoughts about it over the time that you’ve been doing it?

00:22:04.400 –> 00:22:14.480
Well, I’m now represented by an agency, and so they really do my booking for me.

00:22:14.480 –> 00:22:18.420
However, I did my own booking for about eight years.

00:22:19.520 –> 00:22:25.840
I guess the number one thing I’d say is do it.

00:22:28.060 –> 00:22:30.140
If it’s in you to do it, do it.

00:22:30.140 –> 00:22:54.240
Because a lot of the things I’ve seen out of people that are just starting out, and people that would be having that kind of question, is they want to pre-plan their routes before they actually commit to going down the route.

00:22:54.240 –> 00:23:00.320
And what I say is, just plan your first step and then take it.

00:23:00.320 –> 00:23:04.900
Don’t plan step two, step three, step four, step five before you take step one.

00:23:05.880 –> 00:23:06.820
Just take it.

00:23:06.820 –> 00:23:18.740
And then oftentimes you find is when you get to step one and you’re actually on step one, then step two becomes clear, more clear.

00:23:18.740 –> 00:23:27.260
The step two that you would have pre-planned from step zero is probably going to be different once you’re at step two.

00:23:27.260 –> 00:23:30.800
You know, you have a new perspective when you’re actually there.

00:23:31.880 –> 00:23:43.380
So, I would say when it comes to tour and just start touring, you know, it’s hard to plan a tour when you’re not already out and doing it, you know.

00:23:43.380 –> 00:23:45.820
So, just get out and start doing it.

00:23:45.820 –> 00:23:50.060
Do it where it makes sense and do it where you can.

00:23:50.060 –> 00:23:59.380
I mean, most of my first tours I lost money on, but I had a job that enabled me to lose money on touring.

00:24:01.800 –> 00:24:16.820
But even though I lost money, I built connections and I built friendships, and I built a network that helped get me to where I wasn’t losing money in the future.

00:24:16.820 –> 00:24:27.600
So, starting out, touring is almost always a losing proposition, you know, and it’s really as far as from a financial basis.

00:24:28.220 –> 00:24:39.720
But if you look at it, to me, you have to look at it in terms of my long-term life as an artist.

00:24:39.720 –> 00:24:47.680
You know, so much of what I do is predicated on relationships that I’ve built over many years.

00:24:47.680 –> 00:24:52.680
And those relationships are the important part.

00:24:53.260 –> 00:24:55.020
So, where do you tour?

00:24:55.020 –> 00:24:56.500
Where do you have relationships?

00:24:56.560 –> 00:24:59.680
How do you get the relationships by getting out there and doing it?

00:24:59.680 –> 00:25:09.460
If you’re playing at the local barbecue joint or if you’re, you know, touring and playing the small clubs and venues and that’s, it’s all the same.

00:25:09.460 –> 00:25:32.220
Yeah, you got to, if I lost my booking agent today, in the American Southeast, I can tour as frequently as I’d like, just based on, I’ve been touring now since 2017 and pretty much non-stop, with exception of a couple of years around the pandemic.

00:25:32.220 –> 00:25:45.320
And I have, you know, I have a lot of connections and a lot of cities, a lot of little towns, house shows, small venue, small listening rooms, coffee shops, small clubs.

00:25:45.320 –> 00:25:48.860
And I just, I can pick up the phone and book them, you know?

00:25:50.380 –> 00:25:55.340
And that’s just because of years of doing it, you know?

00:25:55.720 –> 00:26:00.240
How long have you been with your current, did you say management or agent?

00:26:00.240 –> 00:26:03.320
Well, I have a manager, but he doesn’t book my shows.

00:26:03.320 –> 00:26:05.340
I have an agent that books my shows.

00:26:05.340 –> 00:26:08.320
I’ve been with him since October of 23.

00:26:09.780 –> 00:26:10.340
That’s nice.

00:26:10.340 –> 00:26:12.200
Made life a little easier for you then.

00:26:13.180 –> 00:26:15.640
It took a lot of the workload off.

00:26:15.640 –> 00:26:19.340
Yeah, I get to focus on other things more now.

00:26:19.340 –> 00:26:22.640
I get to play more shows further out.

00:26:25.800 –> 00:26:29.760
Doing a lot of tours with other artists like Matthew Sweet.

00:26:29.760 –> 00:26:34.300
I did a bunch with Driving and Crying, Dara Williams and Paul Thorne.

00:26:37.120 –> 00:26:39.420
I’m about to do one with Clem Smyde.

00:26:41.740 –> 00:26:44.860
Those things come via the Great Lakes Swimmers.

00:26:44.860 –> 00:26:45.980
I did one with them.

00:26:46.300 –> 00:27:01.060
Those things come with the agency can get for you, and get me out of the Southeast where I primarily was touring for so long.

00:27:02.320 –> 00:27:02.980
Cool.

00:27:02.980 –> 00:27:05.060
I like it.

00:27:05.060 –> 00:27:12.460
Just to test, may not be the right word, but sort of thinking about something I had written.

00:27:12.720 –> 00:27:19.000
Now, I did hear one artist had told me about this approach, which was new for him and it made a lot of sense for me.

00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:26.460
So, I wrote about it, which was like, and he still, or at the time, he was doing his own tour planning.

00:27:27.760 –> 00:27:55.720
He said one thing he learned was to, I guess he did it opposite in the earlier days, and one thing he learned was to go after these kind of anchor shows, like maybe bigger venue, ticketed shows, just things that were bigger that required more lead time, and then developed the rest of his tour around those things, maybe even like house shows and stuff like that.

00:27:55.940 –> 00:28:01.080
I don’t know if that’s something that you had done before your agency, or do you see them doing that kind of thing?

00:28:01.240 –> 00:28:13.880
It almost sounds like it’s like they just because of the work that they do, they’re just working on those type of anchor shows from the get-go, and then you have an opportunity to plug in some things if you want to.

00:28:13.880 –> 00:28:15.140
But is that kind of how it works?

00:28:15.140 –> 00:28:21.640
And do you think that was in that brief description I just gave you, that that was probably decent advice or something?

00:28:21.800 –> 00:28:24.760
Yeah, yeah, that’s good advice, yeah.

00:28:24.760 –> 00:28:46.220
When I was doing it on my own, if I had a significant offer, like say to open for a major artist or to play a festival or something like that, or a high pay in something, then I would do my best to book around it.

00:28:46.220 –> 00:28:50.740
So try to book a couple of hours in any direction around there.

00:28:51.540 –> 00:28:58.260
And that can often be a challenge if it’s an area that you’ve never been to.

00:28:59.320 –> 00:29:03.120
But a lot of times you can connect with other artists that are local.

00:29:04.160 –> 00:29:13.580
It goes back to that thing about just building a network of connections and a reputation amongst other artists, amongst other venues.

00:29:13.580 –> 00:29:26.500
And I did a slew of that stuff for years, you know, for just, oh, I’m gonna be in Lexington, Kentucky, you know, for this festival or whatever.

00:29:26.500 –> 00:29:30.900
Now I need to find something in, you know, East Tennessee somewhere.

00:29:30.900 –> 00:29:45.800
And so a lot of times I would just put a, a post out on Instagram and Facebook and just say, hey, I’m gonna be here, you know, on this date, anybody have any ideas?

00:29:45.800 –> 00:29:54.540
And, you know, I’ve played a lot of backyards and house shows and, and other artists say, hey, you want to open for me?

00:29:54.540 –> 00:29:55.860
You want a song swap?

00:29:55.860 –> 00:29:57.700
You want to do anything, you know?

00:29:57.700 –> 00:30:05.460
And a lot, and if, when you’re get, when you have that anchor date that’s paying good, well, then money, money becomes less of an issue.

00:30:05.460 –> 00:30:08.020
It’s a lot easier to do something like that, you know?

00:30:09.100 –> 00:30:10.120
Yeah, yeah.

00:30:10.120 –> 00:30:11.600
That’s the way I did that.

00:30:11.600 –> 00:30:13.240
I did stuff like that for years.

00:30:13.240 –> 00:30:15.320
It’s good advice.

00:30:15.320 –> 00:30:21.640
Good, and I’m hearing you say some other little things, too, that I had included in there, so it’s nice.

00:30:21.640 –> 00:30:23.400
Thank you for sharing, too.

00:30:23.400 –> 00:30:28.120
It sort of lets me know that there was some validity, good validity, too.

00:30:28.120 –> 00:30:30.840
I still do that now, even with a booking agent.

00:30:31.700 –> 00:30:47.260
If my booking agent’s got me like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and that Tuesday and that next Monday, the previous Tuesday or the following Monday, I have nothing.

00:30:47.260 –> 00:31:10.760
Or let’s say he books me Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, and I have nothing on that Friday, I’ll figure out where a good middle ground is, and I’ll just take a screenshot of Google Maps, and I’ll circle an area, and I’ll just post it on my social media and say, I want to play here.

00:31:12.540 –> 00:31:23.520
Generally, people will say, oh, that’s where my friend lives, or oh, I know this great venue there or something, and I’ve booked a number of things like that.

00:31:23.520 –> 00:31:24.160
That’s cool.

00:31:24.160 –> 00:31:25.660
That’s a good idea.

00:31:25.660 –> 00:31:27.140
Good idea.

00:31:27.140 –> 00:31:27.660
All right.

00:31:27.660 –> 00:31:28.660
New topic.

00:31:28.660 –> 00:31:30.580
Another thing I wrote, it’s so funny.

00:31:30.700 –> 00:31:39.920
These three things I’m telling you about were three among a dozen or so that I thought would be in a couple of newsletters, and each one turned into be its own little mini-series.

00:31:41.020 –> 00:31:53.800
But this other mini-series was on mental health among musicians, and just two topics to throw out at you, and anything else you want to add is great if you do have anything to add.

00:31:53.800 –> 00:31:58.900
So one of them was setting boundaries that work in music, in the framework of music.

00:31:59.780 –> 00:32:04.660
And along the same lines which I was joking about earlier was like learning to say no.

00:32:04.660 –> 00:32:10.520
Yeah, you know, drinking, drinking ain’t good for you when you do it every single night.

00:32:12.320 –> 00:32:22.400
I’ve been, I’ve been guilty of that, and it always, after about five or six days of that, it, it’ll catch up with me personally.

00:32:22.400 –> 00:32:28.260
And, you know, if you’re going to be gone for a long time, it’s always good to have somebody with you.

00:32:28.260 –> 00:32:29.360
That’s what I found out.

00:32:29.360 –> 00:32:33.100
I mean, for me, maybe, maybe other people would rather be alone.

00:32:33.100 –> 00:32:58.860
But if I’m going to be gone on the road for two or three weeks, it’s better for me to have somebody either playing with me or just, you know, running my merch, just somebody to be in the car with me to where, you know, you don’t, you don’t get so lonely and lonesome and stuff because, yeah, the road, the road’s really tough, you know.

00:33:01.100 –> 00:33:12.360
And I mean, I’m fortunate in that I have folks that help me with my, you know, do all my, that I got management now that helps me with a lot of things that I used to do, have to do by myself.

00:33:14.240 –> 00:33:21.480
But, you know, and just keeping, keeping the mindset that you’re fortunate to be able to do what you do.

00:33:22.400 –> 00:33:30.100
It’s easy, it’s easy to get up to Richmond, Virginia on a Tuesday night, and there’s 10 people there and get all upset about it.

00:33:30.100 –> 00:33:44.180
Or you can say, wow, you know, I got to come up to Richmond, Virginia on a Tuesday night, and 10 people thought it was worth 20 bucks to come hear me play my songs.

00:33:44.180 –> 00:33:47.360
And I’m incredibly fortunate to be able to do it, you know.

00:33:48.080 –> 00:33:58.520
So it’s always just keeping them in the thankfulness and the gratitude mindset, which is easy to preach, but it’s harder to live.

00:33:58.520 –> 00:33:59.420
Sure.

00:33:59.840 –> 00:34:04.120
But I do, that’s, I do try.

00:34:04.460 –> 00:34:08.960
When I’m doing the best, I’m thankful and grateful from what’s going on.

00:34:08.960 –> 00:34:20.040
And I don’t try to, we live in a world, you know, where it’s like your people act like this is a business.

00:34:20.040 –> 00:34:27.400
They treat everything like a business, you know, like that’s what our, that’s what our, the society and our culture we live in.

00:34:27.400 –> 00:34:31.360
It’s all about business and how much did you make today?

00:34:31.360 –> 00:34:35.700
Who’s in, you know, who, who’s in your way that you’re going to have to step on.

00:34:35.700 –> 00:34:37.540
But you know, art ain’t that.

00:34:37.540 –> 00:34:40.140
And it’s, I don’t think of it as a business at all.

00:34:40.140 –> 00:34:41.720
Think of it as a lifestyle.

00:34:41.940 –> 00:34:45.540
And this is just the life that I get to live.

00:34:45.540 –> 00:34:51.200
And as a result, you know, most of the time I’m able to make my mortgage.

00:34:51.200 –> 00:34:53.960
And that’s really cool.

00:34:53.960 –> 00:34:56.300
And I, and I’m grateful for it.

00:34:56.300 –> 00:35:01.800
And you know, there’s no, this, there’s no, this is not a competition, you know.

00:35:01.800 –> 00:35:07.820
It’s, it’s like in art, we can all elevate together.

00:35:07.820 –> 00:35:19.100
You know, it’s not like, there’s not just a limited amount of songwriter or touring, folk singer jobs, you know.

00:35:19.100 –> 00:35:24.420
There can be as many as want to be there, you know.

00:35:24.420 –> 00:35:27.880
Lucinda Williams said something in a podcast that I heard one time.

00:35:27.880 –> 00:35:39.020
She said that everybody gets exactly what they want out of talking about artists that play songs and tour and everything.

00:35:39.020 –> 00:35:42.040
You go exactly where you want to go.

00:35:42.040 –> 00:35:43.700
This is something that always helped me.

00:35:43.700 –> 00:35:48.580
And then I heard Lucinda Williams say this in probably like 2017.

00:35:52.260 –> 00:35:58.080
She said that when she was a young touring artist, she would look around at all the other artists.

00:35:58.080 –> 00:36:10.820
She looked around and she was like, man, if I ever get to a point where I could reach back and help people, you know, because she knew how bad she needed help at that time, she said, I would love to do that.

00:36:10.820 –> 00:36:16.180
And then Lucinda said that I finally got to the position where I could turn around and help somebody.

00:36:16.180 –> 00:36:18.300
And she said, I turned around and looked back down.

00:36:18.300 –> 00:36:21.660
And she said, I didn’t see anybody that wanted it like I did.

00:36:22.900 –> 00:36:27.000
And she said, okay, you get exactly what you want.

00:36:27.060 –> 00:36:30.100
And so, I’ve always taken that as an encouragement.

00:36:30.100 –> 00:36:33.200
I always took that as encouragement.

00:36:37.800 –> 00:36:53.780
Just back to mental health, I’ve taken that bit of wisdom and just, I’ve always, I’ve not had any overnight booms or anything but I’m not going viral on TikTok or anything like that.

00:36:53.940 –> 00:37:00.380
But, but I’ve had a slow, steady increase in what I do.

00:37:00.380 –> 00:37:06.320
I’m thankful for it and I try to, I try, I just try to keep that kind of mentality about it, you know.

00:37:06.320 –> 00:37:07.420
Yeah.

00:37:07.420 –> 00:37:15.080
I would imagine that having a road companion can be very helpful with the mindset thing too.

00:37:15.080 –> 00:37:25.260
I could see where, you know, I know that I would be a lot more inclined to let myself go to a dark place quick if I was by myself and things were going tough, you know.

00:37:25.260 –> 00:37:26.820
Yeah.

00:37:26.820 –> 00:37:27.520
Yeah.

00:37:27.520 –> 00:37:28.200
Yeah.

00:37:29.320 –> 00:37:33.180
You get lonely and then you get free alcohol every night.

00:37:33.180 –> 00:37:37.420
And see that don’t take me to happy places.

00:37:37.420 –> 00:37:38.860
Yeah.

00:37:38.860 –> 00:37:39.900
Yeah.

00:37:40.240 –> 00:37:42.520
Doesn’t help the voice either, I guess.

00:37:45.560 –> 00:37:45.880
Yeah.

00:37:45.880 –> 00:37:52.020
Do you find trying to incorporate the physical health aspect of it on the road from like diet to exercise?

00:37:52.240 –> 00:37:53.280
Do you find that challenging?

00:37:53.280 –> 00:37:55.420
Is it something you spent a lot of time?

00:37:55.420 –> 00:37:57.480
It’s extremely difficult.

00:37:57.480 –> 00:38:02.040
It’s something that I’ve struggled with since I started.

00:38:03.040 –> 00:38:05.040
I’ve had peaks and valleys.

00:38:07.580 –> 00:38:15.760
There was a time in about 2023, I was running four to six miles every day.

00:38:15.760 –> 00:38:22.300
And when I would wake up in a hotel or somebody’s house or whatever, I’d find a place to run.

00:38:22.300 –> 00:38:25.580
I’d run, then I’d get in my car and I’d go.

00:38:26.240 –> 00:38:32.360
And I was feeling really good in my mind.

00:38:33.480 –> 00:38:37.340
And I was down in my weight.

00:38:37.340 –> 00:38:40.900
But it’s so incredibly difficult to maintain.

00:38:42.620 –> 00:38:46.920
And then my knees did not care for doing that every day.

00:38:46.920 –> 00:38:51.520
And so my knees started acting up on me, which made me slow down.

00:38:51.540 –> 00:38:53.100
Sure, that’ll do it.

00:38:53.100 –> 00:39:00.080
And then next thing you know, Thanksgiving and Christmas comes around and you eat like a pig.

00:39:01.340 –> 00:39:03.720
And then it just becomes a cycle.

00:39:03.720 –> 00:39:06.660
And then I’ll try to get out of it.

00:39:06.660 –> 00:39:08.640
So I’ll just do this.

00:39:08.640 –> 00:39:11.120
But it’s never easy.

00:39:12.280 –> 00:39:14.840
It’s never easy.

00:39:15.660 –> 00:39:16.840
I wish it could be easier.

00:39:18.300 –> 00:39:20.640
Last year, I started staying at Holiday Ends a lot.

00:39:20.640 –> 00:39:26.860
And Holiday Ends have like an awards thing where they give you points every night you stay.

00:39:26.860 –> 00:39:28.600
And they also all have gyms.

00:39:28.600 –> 00:39:37.320
So they had like elliptical machines and stationary bikes and things like that that I used a lot.

00:39:37.320 –> 00:39:44.240
Then you show up at the venue and the food is free, but it’s all burgers and fried chicken, you know?

00:39:44.840 –> 00:39:49.700
Yeah, that’s the probably even the tougher part is like food depending on where you are.

00:39:49.700 –> 00:39:53.820
And plus, I’m sure, you know, you’re on a budget, you got time constraints, you’re moving.

00:39:53.820 –> 00:39:55.380
Yeah.

00:39:55.380 –> 00:39:57.300
Yeah, it’s it is difficult.

00:39:57.300 –> 00:39:58.480
I haven’t mastered it.

00:39:58.480 –> 00:40:10.220
I want to read your I want to read what you think about it because yeah, if anybody if anybody’s got the trick on that, let me know because I need it.

00:40:10.780 –> 00:40:17.140
I need to find I need to find the I need to find some some insight on that.

00:40:17.140 –> 00:40:18.800
I should I should dig into it more.

00:40:18.800 –> 00:40:19.860
I will share.

00:40:19.860 –> 00:40:27.140
You know, I launched a paid version of the Liner Notes newsletter this year.

00:40:27.140 –> 00:40:29.340
But but there’s still like a free version of it.

00:40:29.340 –> 00:40:33.320
That’s like just a kind of a separate thing based on the same content.

00:40:33.320 –> 00:40:37.580
But regardless, I’ll send you a copy of it to see you can see what I had written.

00:40:37.720 –> 00:40:50.320
But you know, one thing I didn’t do, which I think would be cool is to just look for, you know, based on my own experience and just whatever research and talking to others, whatever great ideas I can find, just share them.

00:40:50.320 –> 00:40:57.040
Because I thought about this sort of physical aspect of it a lot because of a friend that I’ve done some little mini tours with.

00:40:57.040 –> 00:40:59.460
He’s come to Mexico from the States.

00:41:00.540 –> 00:41:03.940
And he’s like a road dog, you know, he’s always on the road.

00:41:05.520 –> 00:41:13.240
And what I think about a lot when I see him is like, how hard it can be to get enough sleep.

00:41:13.240 –> 00:41:13.980
Yeah.

00:41:14.120 –> 00:41:21.100
And everything to start sliding can slide downhill in a very slow way.

00:41:21.100 –> 00:41:23.700
But lifelong, it’s, you know, can be very detrimental.

00:41:23.700 –> 00:41:27.200
And then there’s all the other stuff we’re talking about.

00:41:27.200 –> 00:41:30.900
I saw him, we were about to go to a show, and he was staying with me.

00:41:30.900 –> 00:41:33.040
And I walked in, he’s already ready, he’s dressed.

00:41:33.420 –> 00:41:38.500
But it’s just, you know, I think his schedule is a little wonky, maybe it always is.

00:41:38.500 –> 00:41:40.580
And he’s fully dressed, ready to go.

00:41:40.580 –> 00:41:43.700
And I catch him in my kitchen doing, doing pushups.

00:41:43.720 –> 00:41:46.360
And I’m like, dude, you should have done that before your show.

00:41:46.360 –> 00:41:48.700
And he goes, I got to do it.

00:41:48.740 –> 00:41:50.880
So I know he, I know he’s thinking about it.

00:41:50.880 –> 00:41:53.180
And, and he eats, he eats well.

00:41:53.500 –> 00:41:59.340
And we were talking about rucksacks, you know, rucking, walking with a weighted backpack.

00:41:59.720 –> 00:42:06.320
Because we, he got stuck one day with his guitar case, which is also kind of a suitcase when he travels.

00:42:06.320 –> 00:42:14.340
And we were walking through the historical district of where I live and looking for this cool taco place that we knew to turn out to be closed.

00:42:14.340 –> 00:42:19.600
But on a Sunday, but he’s got this thing and he was kind of moaning about it just a little bit.

00:42:19.600 –> 00:42:23.580
But I was telling him, you know, this is rucking is like, have you heard of this?

00:42:23.580 –> 00:42:25.120
But of course he knew what a rucksack was.

00:42:25.120 –> 00:42:26.400
And I’m like, yeah, it’s all the rage, man.

00:42:26.400 –> 00:42:27.980
So you’re actually getting some good exercise.

00:42:28.080 –> 00:42:29.560
And so I think it made him feel better.

00:42:30.480 –> 00:42:33.740
But yeah, that’s a great thing.

00:42:33.740 –> 00:42:38.000
I think I’m going to dig into it and I’ll send you I’ll send you a copy of those.

00:42:38.100 –> 00:42:40.220
Yeah, that’d be awesome.

00:42:40.220 –> 00:42:40.560
I will.

00:42:40.560 –> 00:42:41.200
I hope you like them.

00:42:41.200 –> 00:42:43.660
If you have any feedback, of course, I’d love it.

00:42:43.660 –> 00:42:45.100
Yeah.

00:42:45.100 –> 00:42:45.380
Okay.

00:42:45.380 –> 00:42:46.160
Here’s the last one.

00:42:46.160 –> 00:42:54.620
And then if there’s anything obviously that you were hoping we’d talk about that we haven’t, I’ll open the floor, open the mic up.

00:42:54.680 –> 00:42:58.780
So this, I wrote a big piece on protecting your music career.

00:42:58.780 –> 00:43:05.100
So like, I imagine you have some help with a little bit of help with this these days, but like understanding.

00:43:05.100 –> 00:43:06.480
So three topics I pulled from it.

00:43:06.480 –> 00:43:10.720
There were all of these were kind of broader in range, but I just pulled some things out.

00:43:10.720 –> 00:43:19.220
But like understanding contracts, copyright and royalties, the latter being a very dense topic, and business structure and taxes.

00:43:20.340 –> 00:43:21.080
Oh, Lord.

00:43:21.080 –> 00:43:22.780
Yeah.

00:43:22.780 –> 00:43:29.640
These are all the parts of of of the thing that I hate.

00:43:29.640 –> 00:43:31.400
I understand.

00:43:31.400 –> 00:43:41.180
I don’t like so I’ve been real fortunate to have a great manager that helps me with all of that stuff.

00:43:42.860 –> 00:43:50.960
Of course, we still file our own taxes, so that’s always a gigantic pain in the ass.

00:43:50.960 –> 00:43:52.860
Pain in the ass, right?

00:43:53.880 –> 00:44:04.160
But yeah, it’s amazing to me that things can be more simple.

00:44:04.240 –> 00:44:12.800
I mean, in fact, the single, my wife, she helps me with my stuff.

00:44:12.800 –> 00:44:14.860
That’s what she does.

00:44:14.860 –> 00:44:22.240
And in addition to taking care of our home and our three children.

00:44:22.560 –> 00:44:36.100
But the single most time of any, the single task that she spends more time on per year than any other thing is our taxes, which is a cry and shame.

00:44:36.100 –> 00:44:38.200
But that’s just the way it is.

00:44:39.460 –> 00:45:07.980
Because, you know, there’s so much of our income that’s spent on, you know, touring records and art supplies and some, you know, gas on the road and food on the road and everything that you do in order to make a living and yeah, copyright.

00:45:07.980 –> 00:45:09.680
I know nothing about all that.

00:45:10.040 –> 00:45:12.800
I don’t understand it.

00:45:12.800 –> 00:45:22.920
I write my own songs and I register them with BMI and I sing them and I release them on records.

00:45:22.920 –> 00:45:25.920
And all the other stuff, man, I don’t know.

00:45:29.880 –> 00:45:33.600
Like I said, I’m fortunate to have management that does that.

00:45:33.600 –> 00:45:40.180
Do they help out with tracking your royalties as well?

00:45:40.180 –> 00:45:42.660
Yeah.

00:45:42.660 –> 00:45:53.260
I mean, I have a BMI, I believe, has that and my distributor for my last record, they send me checks every so often.

00:45:53.700 –> 00:45:55.120
That’s cool.

00:45:55.120 –> 00:45:55.700
Yeah.

00:46:00.300 –> 00:46:07.960
I make a living by playing shows and by selling art, and that’s primarily where I’m focused.

00:46:10.080 –> 00:46:21.220
The streaming things, my streaming numbers aren’t significant enough to provide me meaningful living or anything like that.

00:46:21.220 –> 00:46:23.620
Sure, even a meaningful amount of money.

00:46:23.620 –> 00:46:28.760
I mean, I’m fortunate to get a couple of hundred bucks or something every quarter.

00:46:29.840 –> 00:46:40.120
But because that’s the case, I guess if I had a song that blew up and was getting millions of streams, I’d probably learn a lot about it real fast, buddy.

00:46:42.260 –> 00:46:53.060
But to dedicate myself to learning a lot about that, when it’s pennies, I don’t find a need to do that right now.

00:46:53.060 –> 00:46:53.440
Yeah.

00:46:53.580 –> 00:46:54.600
It’s so much stuff too.

00:46:54.660 –> 00:47:06.040
I’m in a way, not so much like I’m happy or relieved, but I think it’s nice to hear you speak to the reality of something that I think about a lot.

00:47:06.040 –> 00:47:09.840
Because I’m writing about all these different topics, all related to The Independent Musician.

00:47:09.840 –> 00:47:12.860
And I’m like, this is too much shit for people to have to deal with.

00:47:12.860 –> 00:47:17.680
So yeah, having a team in relationships when you can is great.

00:47:17.680 –> 00:47:28.900
And this friend I was telling you about, he has a business partner that helps him out some, but he does an incredible amount by himself, which I know you’ve experienced as well.

00:47:28.900 –> 00:47:31.700
And it’s just crazy when you’re trying to make the art.

00:47:31.700 –> 00:47:32.940
Yeah.

00:47:33.720 –> 00:47:36.020
I know a slew of independent artists.

00:47:36.820 –> 00:47:47.040
I don’t know any of them that make their living via streaming or royalty checks.

00:47:48.900 –> 00:48:03.640
I even have friends that get placement on like big TV shows and movies and stuff, and it will be a big payment, a one-time big payment, but it’s never enough like, okay, I’m going to retire now, you know?

00:48:04.440 –> 00:48:18.020
So, like everybody that I know that makes art independently is usually making it through playing shows, or my visual artist friends, or selling paints.

00:48:18.200 –> 00:48:25.360
They’re doing things that interface them directly with the people that enjoy their art.

00:48:27.880 –> 00:48:34.760
That’s the only way because everything else, like there’s a middle man that’s taking all the money.

00:48:34.760 –> 00:48:36.400
You know what I’m saying?

00:48:36.840 –> 00:48:43.940
If you’re a video creator and you put them on YouTube, you know, like 99% of you ain’t making any money.

00:48:43.940 –> 00:48:51.560
You know, if you’re making music and you’re putting on Spotify, 99% of us are never going to make any money.

00:48:51.560 –> 00:49:00.780
But when you take your art to the appreciators of your art, you know, you don’t have to have a huge fan base.

00:49:00.840 –> 00:49:08.700
You know, I mean, think about it, if I sell one $10 CD at my show, how many how many streams would that be?

00:49:08.700 –> 00:49:15.460
You know, a lot of like if I go, so like I went to play a show in Richmond.

00:49:15.460 –> 00:49:19.980
There were 10 people there about a month ago.

00:49:19.980 –> 00:49:23.980
I had never been to Richmond, Virginia, but I had people.

00:49:23.980 –> 00:49:31.100
I had like three or four of the people came up and bought $20 records, $25 records, somebody bought a shirt.

00:49:31.100 –> 00:49:35.380
So I probably left there with like $200 in merch sales.

00:49:35.380 –> 00:49:40.960
Yeah, man, merch is so where it’s at for, you know, in this lane that you’re in.

00:49:40.960 –> 00:49:42.060
Yeah.

00:49:42.060 –> 00:49:42.400
Yeah.

00:49:42.400 –> 00:50:01.240
So like how much what I’ve had to put in to trying to get on some kind of playlist, trying to get on some type of whatever to get my music streamed on a web, on a, to make 200 bucks.

00:50:01.240 –> 00:50:03.640
It would have, you know, it would have been insane.

00:50:04.760 –> 00:50:16.560
You know, so to me, I’ve focused on trying to get directly to my people, you know.

00:50:16.560 –> 00:50:19.240
And when you do that, you don’t have to have a million.

00:50:19.240 –> 00:50:25.480
Like if you’re going to make, if you’re going to make a living on Spotify, you better have something go viral and get millions of plays.

00:50:25.480 –> 00:50:35.880
Or you can just, you know, find a couple of hundred people in the world that are, you know, or maybe a couple of thousand people in the world that are into what you create.

00:50:35.880 –> 00:50:40.560
And you might be able to wrangle that into a living for yourself.

00:50:40.820 –> 00:50:42.500
Yeah, exactly.

00:50:42.500 –> 00:50:49.180
It strikes me that like even the biggest of artists these days are making their money touring.

00:50:49.180 –> 00:51:07.740
And the other thing is the biggest artists who have a significant library of past work are able to make money on streaming because they have a significant library of past work and people like it.

00:51:08.540 –> 00:51:18.840
And they’re also finding ways to sort of repackage and expand that body of work through things like live recordings and remasterings and special editions.

00:51:19.260 –> 00:51:33.580
And but, you know, as the independent artist, yeah, I hope that, you know, not too many musicians are out there obsessing on playlists and streaming numbers.

00:51:33.820 –> 00:51:35.260
Yeah, some other lower-hanging fruit.

00:51:35.260 –> 00:51:36.720
Yeah.

00:51:36.720 –> 00:51:37.720
Yeah.

00:51:37.720 –> 00:51:45.860
But unfortunately, I think there are, I think there are a lot of people that are always trying to get something on some playlists.

00:51:45.860 –> 00:51:47.780
I’ve never played that game.

00:51:47.840 –> 00:52:13.420
And that’s because I just, I really kind of loathe the whole thing and the whole idea behind the whole idea behind there being like three or four major international corporations that become the way that people listen to my music or anybody else’s music.

00:52:13.640 –> 00:52:43.800
That whole thing just rubs me so wrong that I despise it and so, you know, so I just do the, but you know, like going out and playing songs to people that are looking at you while you’re playing and you’re feeling like this real time connection thing.

00:52:43.800 –> 00:52:45.580
That’s what I love to do.

00:52:45.580 –> 00:52:50.920
You know, that’s what puts the fire in my heart.

00:52:50.920 –> 00:52:55.560
And so that’s what I focus on.

00:52:55.560 –> 00:52:56.960
I think that’s smart.

00:52:56.960 –> 00:53:05.100
You know, and I’ve decided, and I’m always, you know, like I try not to be too hell bent on anything and give myself permission to change my mind.

00:53:05.100 –> 00:53:13.340
But I have been thinking for some time, if for when I publish original music again, I won’t spend the time to put it on streaming platforms.

00:53:13.340 –> 00:53:18.100
I maybe just do something like Bandcamp or just keep it on my own website.

00:53:18.660 –> 00:53:23.120
And if I get enough material to create a physical product, then great, you know.

00:53:23.160 –> 00:53:28.880
But otherwise, I don’t see, it’s a lot of energy and it’s recurring, expands and all that stuff.

00:53:28.880 –> 00:53:30.260
It just doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.

00:53:30.260 –> 00:53:43.320
Yeah, like, yeah, when we, I put out stuff under my own name, Abe Partridge, a lot of times with, well, both my previous records were released with labels.

00:53:43.320 –> 00:53:48.160
So I didn’t really have much control over where it goes.

00:53:48.200 –> 00:53:57.320
But, you know, the Psych P side project I have and the Satan, You’re a Liar side project, I have none of that’s ever been on any streaming platform.

00:53:58.720 –> 00:54:08.060
You can buy them from me, be it in a record or a CD, or you can get them on my website via download.

00:54:08.060 –> 00:54:10.920
The Satan, You’re a Liar is on Bandcamp.

00:54:10.920 –> 00:54:14.900
And yeah, I’m just not going to play those games with my music.

00:54:15.000 –> 00:54:20.060
I don’t, if, and my Abe Partridge stuff, you wouldn’t be able to get that either.

00:54:20.060 –> 00:54:24.720
But you know, those things are with record labels and all that.

00:54:24.720 –> 00:54:35.840
So, well, and also, you know, I have like, I have, I’m very much aware of the fact that I make the kind of stuff that isn’t for everybody.

00:54:35.840 –> 00:54:41.740
So, I’m not going to put out a song that’s going to be billboard, you know, material.

00:54:41.740 –> 00:54:42.500
I know that.

00:54:42.680 –> 00:54:46.100
And so, I exist in a niche, right?

00:54:46.100 –> 00:54:55.720
So, like, why do I need to be on these platforms that cater to the, to the bill, you know, the top stuff, you know, I’m not in that category.

00:54:55.720 –> 00:54:57.920
You know what I mean?

00:54:57.920 –> 00:55:08.260
When I, at the same time, when I listen to your music, I can think of some iconic releases from the past that actually were adopted in mass.

00:55:08.260 –> 00:55:10.120
Different times, but, you know, you never know.

00:55:10.460 –> 00:55:15.560
Yeah, well, that’s, yeah, those are probably some of the artists that I look up to.

00:55:15.560 –> 00:55:18.660
But yeah, yeah, it’s a different day, right?

00:55:18.660 –> 00:55:19.020
Yeah.

00:55:19.020 –> 00:55:23.240
Hey, can you do me a favor and hold that little painting in the windowsill up to the camera?

00:55:24.440 –> 00:55:25.840
That’s yours, right?

00:55:25.840 –> 00:55:28.000
Yeah.

00:55:28.000 –> 00:55:31.320
Yeah, this is my, this is, I made this one for my wife.

00:55:31.320 –> 00:55:32.120
Yeah.

00:55:32.120 –> 00:55:33.180
Nice.

00:55:33.180 –> 00:55:34.220
Yeah, that’s her.

00:55:34.760 –> 00:55:35.580
That’s herself.

00:55:35.600 –> 00:55:40.280
I mean, that’s a portrait of my wife and she keeps it here on the windowsill.

00:55:40.280 –> 00:55:41.400
That’s nice.

00:55:41.400 –> 00:55:42.960
Yeah.

00:55:42.960 –> 00:55:43.200
Cool.

00:55:43.200 –> 00:55:45.680
I was looking at some of your work again today.

00:55:45.700 –> 00:55:56.760
It kind of had a different, took on a different context for me looking at it than it had in the past just because of things that you’ve been doing and some things I know about you.

00:55:56.760 –> 00:55:58.600
So it’s cool stuff.

00:55:58.600 –> 00:56:05.480
So I’ll be sure to put abepartridge.com in the intro of this.

00:56:05.480 –> 00:56:07.580
So people can find out about all the different things you do.

00:56:08.740 –> 00:56:10.600
Did we forget anything?

00:56:10.600 –> 00:56:11.480
Oh, no, buddy.

00:56:11.480 –> 00:56:12.620
You’ve been very thorough.

00:56:12.620 –> 00:56:14.020
I like always Roberto.

00:56:14.020 –> 00:56:15.300
It’s a pleasure to speak with you.

00:56:15.300 –> 00:56:20.980
And again, I please accept my apology for standing you up like I did in the past.

00:56:22.120 –> 00:56:24.440
I promise you it wasn’t by intention.

00:56:24.440 –> 00:56:25.060
Of course not.

00:56:25.060 –> 00:56:25.960
And don’t even think about it.

00:56:25.960 –> 00:56:27.240
It’s good talking with you.

00:56:27.240 –> 00:56:28.000
You too, buddy.

00:56:29.820 –> 00:56:32.660
As an independent podcaster, your support means the world to me.

00:56:32.660 –> 00:56:34.720
You could even say I depend on it.

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With that in mind, here are some things you can do to help support us.

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Follow us on your favorite podcast app.

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Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app.

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Or shoot me a review by email, robonzo at unstarvingmusician.com that I can use on the website.

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Or just share this episode with a friend.

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This makes a huge impact on our audience growth.

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You could also visit our crowd sponsor page at unstarvingmusician.com/crowdsponsor to learn of the many other ways of supporting the podcast, including a quick and easy online tip jar.

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It’s like click, tip, done, easy and super appreciated.

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You’ll find many ways of showing your support there, including through our affiliate partners like Bandzoogle, Kit, email, formerly ConvertKit, Dreamhost and others.

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The music you’re hearing is New God’s Part 2 The Instrumental Mix by yours truly.

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You can hear the full version, download it or buy it at robonzo.com.

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And if all this was too much to remember or process, just go to the show notes for this episode at unstarvingmusician.com to find links to all the stuff talked about in this episode.

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You can leave us feedback, questions, comments, complaints at unstarvingmusician.com/feedback.

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Thanks for listening.

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Peace, gratitude and a whole lot of love.